Hagerty.com

Seinfeld now suing dealer which sold him a Porsche 356 Speedster GS/ST that may be fake

From the first time I heard this it just screams ‘buyers remorse’.

It was purchased by a dealer. Dealers work not from a sense of love, but from a sense of profit. They paid $1.5 mil and 3 years after the purchase they obviously have not been able to sell it.

The flooring costs for a $1.5 mil car is thousands of dollars a month. (meaning that it needs to appreciate that much each month just to stay even) The celebrity thing is diminishing every year that Jerry is no longer on TV.

Suddenly the dealer/buyer realizes that their purchase was not going to be a ‘quick flip’ and instead is a huge depreciating asset. The only way out of this mess is to get the seller take it back and get your expected profit from the courts.

And YES if you are a 100% qualified buyer at the million dollar plus level, any auction house will work with you to arrange for a very through inspection. (sometimes months before the auction) BUT these inspections are NOT casual and are not done on site and certainly not on the day of the auction.

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There was an old saying I heard years ago that is applicable today and with this article. There were more Z/28 emblems sold than actual Z/28 Camaros.

I love the old saying- the winning bidder in an auction is the guy who was willing to pay more than any of the other bidders were willing to pay.

LOL I was thinking the exact same thing. IF that was a '74 Pontiac Catalina, it is highly unlikely there would have been a problem.

Not that it matters, and correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Jerry then donate all the sales proceedings to charity?

briansandrews, obviously you’ve never been to B-J, RM, Goodings, or other top collector car auctions. If in the market for a rare & unusual vehicle you have no choice other than these venues. Many private owners do not have people stop by their homes for a test drive & kick-the-tires session; I surely do not. That said, there are many neat cars & trucks even at B-J that sell for under $30,000 so it’s not just rich guys ripe for the plucking that, in your opinion, should be defrauded.

This is all going right past the main issue ! How many of these cars are fakes ??? Many many many - cars are easily faked ! Sorry guys it’s true.
That’s why provenance and history is key - no certificate for an old piece of metal is proof positive of a thing . Seinfeld bought a dicy car , because of his famous name he was able to flog it at auction .
Nothing can be proven for or against - end of story , these fools should have flogged it on the next mook , now its toxic and they’ll lose their money - I’ll give 150k right now sight unseen

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Indeed. So what? If all you care about are third-world problems, why are you reading about classic cars, and the business of buying and selling them?

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Actually how it works , the auction house is the dealer. The seller gets paid by the auction house. The buyer pays the auction, as the dealer, not the owner of the car. Hence the myriad of disclaimers.

Under normal dealer only auctions , the auction can take arbitration action against the seller on buyers behalf. This is a sticky situation in any case.

As a collector of Bizzarrini cars once told a group of us viewing his collection while discussing their raritiy he said, “of the 176 that were known to be built 212 are still in existence”.

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“Buyer beware!” No one saved paper work one a 1950s-1970s car. Most paper work is reproduced
The Porsche is restored there is nothing original about it.

To be honest, no I have never attended nor do I ever intend to be a buyer at one of these auctions. Second, I do not wish to “defraud” anything or anyone. If someone chooses to spend (even) $30,000 on a car that they do not have the opportunity to drive, that is certainly their business. I will fully admit that I am not well versed in rare, ultra expensive automobiles; but there is no end to the choices a buyer has on sub $30,000 cars without the need to purchase one under the fast pace, high pressure conditions of an auction. If that is what you enjoy, then go for it … but auctions by there very nature have a buyer beware aspect to them. If you feel you got screwed buying a car, or anything else, under these conditions and for such an amount of money and dispute it publically, your opening yourself up to public judgement. As long as I am not forced to purchase cars in such a manner, I have no interest in defrauding or in any other way interfering with the business model of the auction houses or their customers. However, in my mind, such a legal case as this one does not put the auction experience in a positive light to the public. That’s all am saying.

Aaah - The life of the idle rich!

The issue is authenticity, not the specifics of the price. If no deception was involved you can’t sue for paying too much (or too little) and that’s not the issue here.

:joy::rofl: too funny and probably true!

It’s simple to me that if Mr Seinfeld has purchased a car through an auction house, that was not what he believed he paid for, then he must take action against the auction house, who in turn has to take action against the owner who used the auction house to sell the said vehicle. I think his legal team would certainly know this process. However this action would certainly make the lawyers a lot more money than a $1.5 million divorce. I wonder what Jay Leno could input into this conversation.

I don’t think you realize that most of the upper strata collector cars are not driven; they are investments, prized possessions, parts of a collection. A test drive will show if something needs repaired; which is pretty much expected with classic cars; even the pricey ones if that car will actually be driven. The issue with Seinfeld’s car is not that it has mechanical issues or needs a front end alignment (LOL); it is that the car is a fake; not the rare model it was claimed to be; and the proving documentation provided by the seller is forged. Even if totally restored with new made-in-China parts, the frame containing the VIN must be of that rare & valuable car that the genuine paperwork says it is. Fake paperwork & cloned car = fraud. (This crime perpetrated by a dealer results in, at the minimum, triple damages (he gets the car back & must pay the buyer three times the purchase price); but can also include loss of license & jail time. The real point of contention to be proven in court is where is the proof that the car is not the real deal? Just because some “expert” says it’s a fake, or shows that reproduction parts are installed, does not make it so.
One more thing; of the many thousands of cars bought & sold at auction each & every year, only a tiny percentage (fewer than .01%) end up in legal arbitration - this speaks positively for the auction venue.

It’s a lot of money to spend on basically a glorified Volkswagen

I agree…you can crawl all over (and under) the car days before it hits the block…

Certainly another serious first-world problem…