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When did automakers start hating young people so much?

Your right. A car doesn’t need to be 400hp. It needs to be a 600+hp 427 stroker. The need for speed.

Lots of barely-hidden cynical remarks aimed at what is likely perceived by the author as “clueless liberals”. Things change; markets evolve, and while it might not be the same as what you valued as a young person, don’t underestimate the auto industry’s ability to produce what young people want. “It can’t be an electric car; that’s been tried before”…really? Technology evolves and gets better - Tesla’s “insane mode” silent rocket blast will trickle down and kids will still get their speed thrills, while polluting less. That’s progress, whether you can relate to it or not.

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Question, do they have a high mileage subcompacts because they don’t like cars or because that’s all they can afford? I’d imagine that assuming you shared your enjoyment of the hobby there’s at least appreciation. I don’t know your situation, but in general there s a difference between appreciation and not being able to afford and indifference. That said, I think the perception that millennials don’t care about cars is false. I personally know a multitude of millennials who do.

As much as I dislike bro dozers, I’m actually gonna side against you on your coworkers. I’d argue that they are enthusiasts although lacking in taste or understanding of other cars.

It’s long past time to end this mindless nonsense of empty cold war rhetoric about climate change.

  • It’s real. Not like there’s a question.
  • It’s human caused. There are No - as in None Whatsoever - other variables that would account for it.
  • There are No scientific peer–reviewed data to suggest otherwise.
  • The ice Is melting. Trump himself has requested a new seawall to protect one of his golf courses in Scotland against rising sea levels.
  • The nonsense about Manhattan overlooks the recently announced project to protect Staten Island against rising sea levels. Manhattan is only a matter of time.
  • Capitalism as currently practiced does Not repeat Not deal with the interests of consumers – the customers that are core to making it work.
  • I mean “agitprop?” A term that only means someone says something with which someone else doesn’t happen to agree.
    The upcoming changes in the vehicular market are Not the result of some insidious plot against an economic regime, or a deep conspiracy to ignore climate change as real, or an anti-car agenda.
    Every.Single.Manufacturer is now looking into EV’s, and those folks are capitalists of a very high order. They are Not being forced into it by government regulations – though there is a lot to be said for being able to breathe actual Air or being safe on crowded roads.
    The current change now underway is comparable to the change from horse-drawn transportation in the early 20th century, and much of the current rhetorical nonsense follows what was being said at the time. Even the pollution problem of horses was mostly about manure – a genuine large public health hazard that required governmental moves to deal with.
    Those of us in the car hobby are Not “the market.” We are a very small slice of it. We see the cars as worthy objects in their own right, when the actual market is not interested in owning cars – it is interested in transportation.
    Transportation doesn’t and wont depend only on cars or trucks now, any more than it required trains and horses in 1900. It just requires mobility – nothing more.
    Capitalists will do as they have done before – move to exploit the new and changing market to come up with new an interesting ways to transport people and generate wealth in the process. That’s how Capitalism works – not by glueing itself to old outmoded technologies, or by complaining that the old ways are disappearing.
    Cars replaced trains and horses.
    Airplanes replaced ocean liners.
    Cars changed over the years, and will some more.
    A real capitalists will see that and move to react to the market. That’s what makes capitalism such a useful and effective economic regime.
    Standing on the sidelines complaining about it is a sure way to abandon a dynamic and interesting industry As it was always going to change, as it has before and will again.
    My wife’s horse was her hobby for 25 years. But no one would ever suggest she should have saddled it up and ridden it into town. She showed it at shows, rode it in closed events but enjoyed the hell out of it nevertheless.
    Over time, the same thing will happen with our petrol-powered cars.
    The smart people will make money by reacting to what the market will demand.
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Yes, they drive what they can afford, and what they can afford to put gas in, maintain, insure, etc. My daughter has liked all of my “Fun Cars”, but she has no desire to maintain a cars appearances, or mechanicals (she just views it as a means to an end, an appliance). My more than likely son-in-law to be, could care less, he sees no value in any car. They like SUV/CUV for the ride height, and because they are trendy right now, and even as they get older and earn more $, I don’t see them spending much on any vehicle, and definitely not a new one (they like most millennials prefer experiences, not possessions). To each their own I guess.

If we humans are responsible for global warming (I believe in climate change, as it has always changed, but I don’t believe in global warming), then how do you explain all the changes that happened over and over long before mankind walked the earth?
In the mid to late 1970s, many parts of the U.S. experienced major winter blizzards, and they claimed we were entering a new ice age, but a few years later into the early 80s…suddenly it’s global warming! The air we breathe in this country is Far cleaner than it was even in the 70s, and besides, how can you call electric cars cleaner? How do we produce the electricity to charge them? This planet has survived for Many, Many, Many years before mankind, and it will continue to do so long after we find ways to kill our selves off.

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Kindly suggest a Mazda CX-3 or 5. Ticks all the boxes they want, but they also happen to be great drivers. Once they get used to a car that handles well and is fun to drive around they may start to look for more engaging cars in the future.

My wife has a CX-5, and you’re right, for the price, it is the best CUV if you’re looking for a fun to drive vehicle. That being said, my kid liked the Nissan Rogue that they had as a rental last summer better!? I drove it, and thought it was a soulless pile, especially hated the CVT (but I’ve never driven one that I liked, or would own/buy, even Honda’s, that the motoring press seems to like).

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How about that 64 1/2 Mustang. Affordable, Good Looking, Fun, Reliable. You put all 4 of those things in a car and it’s a huge win for everybody- SOMEBODY PLEASE DO THIS AGAIN instead of the toasters we are forced to choose from!

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Oh well… I guess having one less fossil fueled car on the road is better then the tons of plastics we use without thinking twice about. NO I didn’t read the this article from start to finish but I do notice young people and their shopping habits when it comes to the need of doing less and letting their shopping come to them. For every one car on the road polluting the air there are billions of plastic bottles, plastic bags and coffee cups being produced that creates pollution as well…Its just like the young people to complain about something that’s gone on for years but not see what they have been doing is just adding to the evil we are doing to this planet…I know I know off topic here but its all is leading us to the same ending…WE are a throw away society and always will be from now on because its so easy…I.got to have the newest smart phone model,I got to have my liter bottle of water with me every second of the day and I got to stop and get the 5 dollar latte mocha so everyone see’s me looking the part… I guess we know that auto makers are letting us all down then too, you don’t need to “ORDER” that car you want because they have so many built already that they are hoping they can get us to buy one with a few of the options we might want on your $23.000 dollar car. I know its not in them to wait for anything…I mean the younger people…They have grow up with this ability to figure out that nothing else is more important than their time complaining!!! Oh… and its not about anything specific, just the topic of the day on FB… The auto industry is falling on its face now…after about 2 or 3 years of level gas prices and a so-called “better economy” the small car market beating over the last 7 or 8 years has taken its toll…The younger people have lost out on that option of an economical car because the auto industry lost that bread and butter segment to the SUV craze…When push came to shove on the show room floor, SUV’s got us believing more is better!!! I know “to each their own” is a good rule to stand on but the market can’t follow theses young people ideas because they have so many of them and they are all self absorbing interest…If and when they look up from their smart phones and are told “take it or leave it” or “I have to order that” or " this is the only color it comes in" well I guess we know that they will get a ton of replies to their post about how rude they were treated at the_______ ( fill in the blank ) I was at a 16 year olds birthday party this weekend, the only thing that stood out to me as unusual was the fact that the younger people that were there seemed to only be concerned about having enough outlet to charge their phones…a dozen or so kids all with that phone glued to their hands…Yes the auto industry does hate younger people so much, and a lot of us do as well…

When US automakers started working for CARB and Brussels, they began to hate ALL their customers.

We can only end the mindless nonsense of empty cold war rhetoric about climate change by agreeing with you and keeping our mouths shut? Think we hit the root cause.

“the Look” is the thing that is missing for most cars/companies today.

Back when GM was competing with itself (silly in ways sure) you knew which make was which. I give Jeep props for mostly looking Jeepish.

Mazda has a bit of style.

Kia and Nissan have some --and yes, some of it is weird. Bring on the weird.

Dodge has a bit of style with the retro cars and more than 3 colours… Mini looks like new mini

but there are classes of car where there are 10+ variants from various companies and if we mixed up the badges 98% of people wouldn’t know.

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Why not electric? Electric is cool.

As a young person(going into first year of college), and being a car enthusiast I hate seeing new generations of cars coming out with even more tech and safety features. Unlike most kids I know from my town I wasn’t gifted the family car or given one, I had to work for mine, which ended up being an 86 camaro LT, and 85 K5 Blazer, an 85 K2500 suburban, and now my college car an 95 Saturn SC2. I love the simplicity of my old cars, my suburban doesn’t even have a radio, it has two bench seats, and indestructible 350 with and 4-speed manual, and everyone know me and that truck because it’s unique and different. No one cares if you drive by in a quite, slow, and boring looking economy car, people notice the style that you represent in the car you drive, even if they aren’t a car person. I said in my freshman year of high school I wouldn’t buy a car past the year 1995 until I can’t anymore and am forced to buy a newish car. I also find that options for cars nowadays are boring, I love reading built sheets about my cars and one I find in junkyards, it basically makes every car unique in it own way, but nowadays every car from every brand that is in the affordable young buyer market is just the same thing. Someday when I have kids of my own and they go and buy there first car the way I did it’s going to be kinda sad because they won’t be able to experience having a unique car, they’ll just have to settle with a 20 year old beater with no style or class.

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I think it is really coming into its own finally. The new Honda e is a fantastic looking car, and if they would put it on sale in the US, I would be at a dealer tomorrow looking at one.

It’s only cool if it’s cool i.e. Steve McQueen. I’m sure e cars will do better and whatever in the future, but at least in my camp there’s too much resentment to want to even look at them. The social push by tax breaks, idiots where electricity is made from burnt coal looking down at cars using gas, governments raising gas taxes for road repairs and letting e cars run for free, etc. Hard to date someone who pisses you off :wink:

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If I can get some of my taxes back for driving some cool tech, I’m taking it. :slight_smile:

Well one variable is Sun Spots , the other is volcano’s which affect the weather . These both have had a measurable effect in recent times ( i.e. Krakatoa ) look it up , a little island in the Java Sea , perhaps you have heard of it ? It caused what has been termed the little ice age , crop failures , much colder temperatures global effects , some would say we are just now starting to actually return to normal . The planet has been MUCH warmer than now and we survived and in fact flourished . They use to be able to grow grapes in Nova Scotia ,. hence the term “Vinland”.

I love Capitalism , it is the greatest force for good and equalizing people the world has ever seen and yes eventually the market will determine what happens . But is should be left to do that on its own forces . Not the Crony-ism that currently infects much of the body politic. If it succeeds or fails it should do so on its own accord , not because Governmental forces willed it to be so .

There is still free public discussion out there, and You are not oppressed thereby.
Last month was the hottest June on record ever in recorded history.
This month is lining up to be the hottest July.
The ice melt continues unabated, and is increasing.
The permafrost continues to melt, and the rate is increasing.
The ocean temperatures, including the deep ocean, is growing warmer.
Small island nations and islands are going underwater. Staten Island is seeking to build a sea wall to keep from flooding. DJT wants one for his golf course in Scotland.
None – as in Not One – of the causes of past global warming (and yes – we Do know what they were) are occurring now.
There’s just something about Reality™ that demands better public discussion. Better does Not repeat Not include denial of what’s actually going on.